Yet wondering whatever happened to the middle way of wise and wholesome view, intention, speech, action, livelihood, effort, mindfulness, concentration… leading to right knowledge and liberation.

They fell by the wayside..once upon a time due to ignorance, skeptical doubt, and wrong views. Peace and metta~

love and respect,

katie

“When you say that “Black men commit real violence” but ask us to consider how that is conditioned (in a violent capitalist world that continually re-traumatizes and dehumanizes people of color), I agree. And I think I should have spoken more directly to that issue somewhere, because it haunts every single critical engagement with Black masculine sexuality.”

And then in your response to me here,

“So I agree, reason and analysis needs to get in there somewhere: especially if we were talking about violence among Black men, which is already so loaded.”

So, if you understand the seriousness of your subject matter and the importance of having a systemic analysis then why didn’t you? It reflects a carelessness and, perhaps, a lack of knowledge and experience of the history of black people in this country, and black male sexuality in particular. Like you, I see the importance of sexuality socially, but I believe we have different visions, practices and goals. I believe that sexuality is an important basis for struggle and liberation in this country. My queer revolutionary politics are always directed back at the system; the true source of our alienating and oppressive relations with ourselves and others, not David Banner. I want to stand with my people to help heal them and influence their consciousness so that they understand their contradictions as the systems contradictions. I want to speak to my people in language they understand and not write overly academic papers, which don’t reflect people’s real experiences. The people must begin to write and theorize about their experiences so that they, in struggle, can fight for a different world. You even admit in your above response that David Banner won’t even read this,

“And also it’s about trying to offer some tools (Audre Lorde’s eroticism; trans politics) to move us all (cus let’s be real, Banner probly won’t read this) toward a sexual praxis that helps make everyone more and more safe, recognized, supported in their pleasure and desires, and staunchly resistant to the systemic forces that commodify our sexuality, our humanity.”

If you already have this attitude that Banner won’t read this then why did you write it? I don’t understand your intentions, and your language is abstract. What are these tools? Who are they for? Not Banner, are they for black men? Is it going to help me talk to my father, who is a 61 year old working-class black man who has never heard of the word cismale?

Throughout this piece I couldn’t help, but feel the weight of history on my sholders in so many complex ways. First, the fact that you direct your analysis at Banner repoduces these ideas of black men and rappers as the only purveyors of sexism. These arguments go way back to the beginning of the 20th century where the continual lynchings of black men were justified because they were supposedly ‘raping’ white womyn; meanwhile the true rapist, the white man, is committing tremendous amounts of sexual violence upon black womyn, and it is made completely invisible, just like this history and the black womyn is invisible in this letter. Even Crunch pointed it out here,

“Also, why choose Banner? Are there no other white men saying things equally sexist things on air? that makes me think that it was just easier to choose Banner to focus in on because he’s a Black man. And a rapper. and the society teaches us to hate/ fear Black men.”

I am not saying that your letter is explicitly accusing black men of rape and sexual violence, but to not understand and reference this history is a huge problem. Also, as a revolutionary feminist, I disagree with the politics of this letter, the subject and the goals. It reminds of the ways that some have had more privilege to define concepts and movements, such as feminism. Historically, white womyn have had more material privilege to get an education and have had the time to engage in political oganizing. There experiences with privilege also gave them blinders on the way that the majority of the womyn lived in this country and the world, yet they had the privilege to participate in a social movement and define it. These womyn had no real race and class politics and this is why womyn of color had to organize feminist spaces outside of them and start their own movements. Movements that I walk in the footsteps of. Feminism must understand the contradictions within the class so that the class may direct its energy against the root of the problem, capitalism. I agree with Crunch that you should revise this piece if its going to stay up on the web.

I feel as though this article was not written with care. point blank. it has a sarcastic tone without a structural, social, or systemic analysis of where patriarchy in the black community comes from. When writing about communities about people it is important to take matters seriously if you are being serious. Talking about Black men and patriarchy is a serious matter. Using language that can be perceived as appropriating (“holla”) in the same article where you show no care for a member of the community that that language is socially attached to is not care. I am offended by this work.
I believe that there is also a problem with the subject of this letter being david banner for the fact that I see these quasi, half formed polemics against Black celebrity figures as useless. all they do is go with the current of racist thought and speech against Black folk. If you really wanted to talk about patriarchy then logic tells me that I need to go beyond Banner as a source. Also, why choose Banner? Are there no other white men saying things equally sexist things on air? that makes me think that it was just easier to choose Banner to focus in on because he’s a Black man. And a rapper. and the society teaches us to hate/ fear Black men.
I believe that you acknowledge this. maybe you should re-vise the article.

I believe that there is also a problem with the subject of this letter being david banner for the fact that I see these quasi, half formed polemics against Black celebrity figures as useless. all they do is go with the current of racist thought and speech against Black folk. If you really wanted to talk about patriarchy then logic tells me that I need to go beyond Banner as a source. Also, why choose Banner? Are there no other white men saying things equally sexist on air? that makes me think that it was just easier to choose Banner to focus in on because he’s a Black man. And a rapper. and the society teaches us to hate/ fear Black men.

I believe that you acknowledge this. maybe you should re-vise the article.

So I found it refreshing to read, “ultimately it becomes about marketing a repertoire of sexual skills, with no need to demonstrate responsiveness, mindfulness, and openness to the many permutations of sexuality that might actually exist!”

Wish the younger me had this piece of wisdom.

I don’t feel attacked by this letter as I’m guessing Banner wouldn’t either. Credit is given where its due. Its more of a reaching out than a witch hunt.

Crunch, Chakaz, while I agree with the points you are making, they seem almost independent from the text at hand.

Skyla, I don’t think I could have responded more gracefully. Thank you for your positivity!

Relatedly, thank you for sharing your story about your father. It definitely illustrates the ways that blaming individuals can distract from recognizing and struggling with the bigger issues. Systemic patterns and material forces that shape us as people. And yet as you say, love is still in there. Engagement on a personal level is what enriches us as people who are able to hold both compassion and a critical eye, motivated by the hope that things don’t have to be this way; they can be better. For us and our loved ones; for everyone.

For me, that’s where concepts of the erotic, gender self-determination, and beginner’s mind can open up possibilities for inspiring radical change on a systemic level. What if people insisted on the right to live our erotic, irrational selves, rather than be forced for survival’s sake into constant dehumanizing rational labor that insists on dictating our gender *and* is always getting sped up? This could be an inspiration to get rid of “work” as we know it, as Grace Lee Boggs says, or to transform work into a process that supports discovery, and “beginner’s mind,” rather than the stressed-out, body-breaking, dehumanizing hustle that is survival for most people on the planet. (Let alone non-human beings.) We see some examples of people taking this approach, like the “slow food movement” as a challenge to agrobusiness, but unless we push to change things at a system level (like beyond policy reform) those choices and social experiments will only be available to a select few.

Katie and I talk about this kind of stuff sometimes, and even though it didn’t make it into the original post I’m thankful that you brought up the systemic question. There’s a lot I want and need to learn. For this piece specifically, I hope it might contribute to an idea of what more healthy, healing, and pro-liberation sexuality can look like: adding to the discussion that Banner brings up in his video interview.

I feel you in that unless a piece on sexuality includes explicit systemic analysis, it tends to automatically reinforce the idea that sex is somehow divorced from structural systems — who works where and how; distribution of medical and other resources; systematic theft of land and bodies; forcing people to sell our bodies in various ways, including sexualized ways; state violence, terrorism, and training of acceptably gendered workers — and exists ‘purely’ as culture, or as individual choices or behaviors. So I agree, reason and analysis needs to get in there somewhere: especially if we were talking about violence among Black men, which is already so loaded. But again, I’m surprised that you saw the piece as an attack on Banner, or as painting him as violent (in the way most people think of Black male violence in our racist sexist capitalist society), although I respect that that’s how it came across to you, and will continue to reflect on that. It would help me if you could point to things I wrote (in addition to things I didn’t write) that gave you that reading.

As far as focusing on David Banner in particular, when I watched those videos of him I thought he seemed like a particularly interesting and nuanced public figure to engage with. He seems very charismatic, many people know who he is, and his job as an artist is to stir up feeling, so people already approach discussions about his work from that generative nonrational place — although it seems like he also encourages his audience to theorize as well. I hear you on the pattern of picking on Black male rappers, or rappers in general, and I agree with you, like I said to Crunch, that a pop entertainer like Tucker Max is on a whole other level of horrible misogynistic violence that reflects the violence of the system we live in. My intention in engaging in a friendly, critical way with Banner’s work was that I’d like to help make more and more conversations about queering and liberating sexuality on a level that’s very relatable and familiar to a lot of people, if that makes sense.

This might be one of many ways. I hear that it didn’t resonate with you and that you found dangers and problems in it, and I appreciate you expanding on the problems you see. I’ll continue to reflect on what you’ve written. In any case, I appreciate the dialogue and hope it might have some beneficial contribution to more radical sex education, or continual re-education, learning and unlearning, within the sea of oppression we’re swimming in, and trying to come ashore from.

This blogging thing is intense! Much to think on.

peace and appreciation,

skyla